Rob ([info]robyrt) wrote,
@ 2008-05-16 10:47:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Gay Marriage in California
was court-mandated today. Now, it should come as no surprise that I disagree with this decision. Not only am I against gay marriage, but I'm against judicial activism on a topic where the other two branches of government are engaging in a real and unresolved debate.

Sorry if this is long, guys. It's a complex issue and I try not to dwell on any one topic too long.

However, it's difficult to disagree with the judge's conclusion here considering the facts on the ground. This ain't the mayor of San Francisco blatantly violating the law, this is a state with a very strong civil unions law that basically put gays on a "separate but equal" marriage track. Once they already have all the state benefits, the state gains nothing from distinguishing them verbally and it's an invitation to discriminate against them.

The proposed constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage is a bad idea - the last time we tried to enshrine social policy into the Constitution, we got Prohibition.

The mayor of San Francisco's executive decision to allow gay marriage was just wrong. He was clearly violating the law and overreaching his authority. That was abuse of power on a level with President Bush and I'm glad that the voters and the courts wouldn't stand for it.

Having these decisions handed down from the bench is also wrong. The Supreme Court, the most revered part of government, also has a notoriously spotty record on social policy - remember, these are the guys who produced both Plessy v. Ferguson and Brown v. Board of Education. The closest recent analogy I can see is Roe v. Wade, a decision that STILL divides the public 30 years later.

Since we shouldn't adjudicate gay marriage, or nationally legislate it, or decree it from on high, the remaining option for a contentious social issue of national import is for "the states and the people" to decide. From where I sit, the states are doing just that, with some (like California) deciding they want civil unions and some (like Virginia) deciding they don't. The role of the federal government here should be to clarify exactly what happens when these marriages cross the state line.

More importantly, I'm beginning to think that my fellow evangelicals and I have been going about this fight all wrong. Yes, historically, marriage is one of the most important parts of the social fabric, and one that the state has a duty to protect and encourage. Yes, having parents of both genders is better for kids than other options, and so the state should give powerful incentives for doing so. But having the religious ceremony of marriage rely on the state for legitimacy may be building your house on the sand. Maybe we should decouple the religious ceremony of marriage from the social contract of a civil union. This way, you can legislate about who exactly gets to have a civil union and what it should entail, while simultaneously fending off Pat Robertson and the "separate and prejudicial" ADA-style gay activists.

P.S. There are cogent arguments both for and against gay marriage, but "these people love each other!" is not one of them. Marriage is not a fundamental right, it is a license open to a specific set of people who are expected to form "family units" (of 2+ people) and provide tangible benefits to society. It also happens to be a sacred rite in every religion, for the same reasons. A good number of the FLDS cultists in Texas were happy to be living in a polygamous marriage where child abuse was the norm.



(Post a new comment)


[info]bannana873
2008-05-16 05:28 pm UTC (link)
Ironically, you an I come from completely different opinions and opposing beliefs on this issue (as probably shouldn't surprise you), to reach the same conclusion.

As someone who supports secular governance, and believes "marriage" is ultimately a religious context, I also agree that the best thing to do is decouple marriage and civil unions. Allow the churches to determine what is a "marriage" and the states to decide who gets civil unions.

I'm also not a big fan of these decisions being made by courts, but that's more largely due to my feelings on the backlash theory. I ultimately believe that Roe v. Wade was one of the worst things to ever happen to the pro-choice movement, and has set our court system and our country back ages, as we pro-choicers now find ourselves where we have little choice but to defend it, even those of us who wish it hadn't happened.... I fear a series of gay marriage rulings would do the same. Liberals would do well to learn it is better to win in legislatures than take the easy way out and try winning in courts...

(Reply to this)


[info]psifenix
2008-05-16 07:11 pm UTC (link)
I'm sure you know this already, but I think it bears repeating: Pro-gay marriage bills have passed the California legislature twice, only to be vetoed twice by Schwarzenegger with the reasoning that such things should be left "to the courts and the people." Since Our Beloved Governor supports the court's decision, I don't see how the legislative and executive branches of California are engaged in a "real and unresolved debate" (unless of course you are referring to the rather even split in the court). Ballot measure is still obviously open (and banned gay marriage eight years ago when the debate was hardly fair), but deferring social policy directly to the people seems a lot more disastrous to me than leaving it to the courts.

Regarding the semantic debate, "marriage" is genuine and already recognized by society, whereas "civil unions" seem somewhat cold and clinical. If the two were decoupled, then I don't think there would be a problem on my side, because gay people could always get "married" in say, the Unitarian Universalist Church if they cared enough about "the word." It would be a lot harder to make cogent-sounding arguments in support of the evangelicals' side in such a situation, since getting married would then become an issue of "religious freedom"-- untouchable by those who cry just that whenever they feel the need to "legislate from the pew."

The "someone please think of the children" argument has little weight with me. No child has a choice in who his (biological) parentage is, despite the severe effects it will likely have on his growth as a person. To keep married lesbian couples* (say) from raising children on the shaky reasoning that "their children may have low self-esteem or be less assertive" would be on par with preventing overbearing or single mothers from raising children... or any other group in society for any other reason. I can see it now: CPS becomes a new branch of the armed forces, with big black vans patrolling quiet suburban neighborhoods, forcibly "rescuing" children from overbearing mothers and laid-back fathers everywhere.

* Besides... don't you think there would be some statistical clustering here with "lesbian" and "tree-hugging liberal"?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]robyrt
2008-05-17 03:37 am UTC (link)
On legislature: I was referring to the referendum -> bill -> veto -> courts cycle here. Schwarzenegger has just recently come around to Supporting The Courts, but public opinion is still pretty unclear, hence the referendum in November. I just feel like it would have been a lot easier to see the results and then decide what "society" thinks based on those.

On semantics: I hadn't thought of the Unitarians. They'd probably marry you to the Sea if you wanted. :-P I reserve the right to make fun of them, but they still count as a religion, so more power to 'em in this scenario.

On thinking of the children: Tee hee, so true! Studies are unfortunately hard to come by, because lesbian psychologists are pretty much as far left as it gets, and so they tend to focus their studies on irrelevant stuff like "does having your gay father get divorced make you more likely to sexually experiment? 15 subjects responded to this study!" So we have little to no idea of what's happening given the drastic parenting changes in our society these days, certainly not enough to make laws on.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…